Curse

Bouldershoulder · Oct 06, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Okay, I just got this elite, and at first glance I thought and knew it was better than Aggressive Refrain. The only problem is that, for it to be most effective, do I have to load up on a long lasting chant or shout?

I just don't feel like I am using it right. I don't like Motivation much, and that's where all the long-lasting chants are, and Command shouts are quite immediate. is there a nice spammable shout that I may use to refuel Soldier's Fury?

My friend said it was better than Agressive Refrain, so I listened and got it. I just need some help.

Sk8tborderx · Oct 06, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Go /W and take watch yourself.

Barghest · Oct 06, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Or you take "They are on Fire!". It's a good choice if you have a Searing Flames Ele with you.

Only against Destroyers it's worthless

Bouldershoulder · Oct 06, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Thanks guys, I'm going to try both of your suggestions.

Tarzanboy · Oct 06, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Actually it's better to go Command-o than Motivation when using Soldier's Fury, especially if you are the lone Paragon in the party.

Shouts (0 cast time):

[skill]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] - Tactics, increases armor and adrenaline based, so it is spammable. With a high enough Leadership, this will fuel more expensive shouts such as TNtF or SYG.

[skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill] - Command, adds defense, especially to the non mobile squishies. If there are two Paragons in the group, this skill can be taken by one while TNtF is carried by the other.

[skill]"Go For the Eyes!"[/skill] - Command, another adrenaline skill great for triggering Blazing Finale or increasing damage potential, but only lasts for 1 attack. Like WY, with a high enough Leadership, this will fuel more expensive shouts such as TNtF or SYG. In a multiple Paragon group, the one with SYG should carry this.

"There's Nothing to Fear!" - Sunspear (Leadership) reduces damage by a percentage, helping the monks out by reducing spikes.

"I Am The Strongest!" - Norn, gives you increased damage over a specified number of attacks. Low cost (5e) and since it does not time out, can be cast between fights without losing the effect.

Recommended order of use:
"I Am The Strongest!" - before/after fight and as needed/recharged in fight.

"There's Nothing to Fear!" - At the beginning of a fight to reduce initial spike and as it recharges during a fight.

"Watch Yourself!" - pretty much as often as it charges, unless you are using other adrenaline based skills.

"Stand Your Ground!" - once you can afford it during a fight.

"Go For the Eyes!" - while WY is up and not flashing.

Cheers,
TB

ARK729 · Oct 06, 2007, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I use this skill, for a command paragon its best to use " stand you ground!" and " theres nothing to fear" and just alternate them.

Racthoh · Oct 06, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

There is no situation where Soldier's Fury is going to be better than Aggressive Refrain unless you feel 8% faster attack rate warrants the use of your elite slot. Soldier's Fury works if you're under the effects of a shout or chant, Aggressive Refrain is reapplied everytime one ends. Personally I'd rather use a skill that does more than barely increase my DPS and adrenaline gain.

Stormlord Alex · Oct 06, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouldershoulder

My friend said it was better than Agressive Refrain, so I listened and got it. I just need some help.

Your friend is an idiot.
It may well be marginally better... But it's kinda... like... an Elite... and stuff.

Just stick with AR.

Narcin · Oct 07, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

There is no situation where Soldier's Fury is going to be better than Aggressive Refrain unless you feel 8% faster attack rate warrants the use of your elite slot. Soldier's Fury works if you're under the effects of a shout or chant, Aggressive Refrain is reapplied everytime one ends. Personally I'd rather use a skill that does more than barely increase my DPS and adrenaline gain.

I definately agree. Using Agressive Refrain and a different elite would be a much better idea. If you're really at a loss take AR and anthem of flame. Anthem has a 10 second recharge which means use it when ever it recharges, and depending on weather or not you're near enough party members, you get most of your energy back, sometimes more then the skill cost.

ARK729 · Oct 07, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Agressive Refrain effeciency increases with the number of paragons in your party. I have tried it when having 3 paragon heros in the party and it worked great. BUT if your the only paragon here and dont need to use the "Save yourself" build, then it becomes really inconvient if you suddenly stop battle or have issues putting up short shouts. It is even worse if you get DP, since you have a chance of not being able to use this skill at all. If you really think about it there aren't really other elite skills that are that much better. This skill makes it much less hasle when ur the only paragon since u can always just put it back up again for 5 energy thought worrying about not having any more energy to do other things for the next minute or so.

Winterclaw · Oct 07, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Or you could just go /w and bring frenzy and a cancel stance. I did that with my survivor paragon for a little while in the beginning.

Racthoh · Oct 07, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARK729

If you really think about it there aren't really other elite skills that are that much better.

Cruel Spear and Defensive Anthem are the first two that come to mind. Party wide 50% block or a skill that causes deep wound are much better than an unreliable 8% faster attack rate that needs to be reapplied.

Quote:

This skill makes it much less hasle when ur the only paragon since u can always just put it back up again for 5 energy thought worrying about not having any more energy to do other things for the next minute or so.

I can keep Aggressive Refrain up with no hassle because I'm using shouts during the fight anyway. Once you're suddenly not under the effects of a shout (which means you have to force a skill bar that has you with a shout that can be maintained 24/7) Soldier's Fury is now doing nothing. If you're the only paragon, Soldier's Fury becomes much harder to maintain because you have to have a skill like They're On Fire! which can be hit on recharge or you risk losing the attack rate for a while. As long as Aggressive is up, it is working.

Quote:

BUT if your the only paragon here and dont need to use the "Save yourself" build, then it becomes really inconvient if you suddenly stop battle or have issues putting up short shouts.

Short shouts? At 12 leadership, Aggressive Refrain is up for 21 seconds. I can't think of any shouts or chants that last longer than 21 seconds.

Quote:

It is even worse if you get DP, since you have a chance of not being able to use this skill at all.

Four weapon sets, slot two for me is a +20 energy staff.

Tarzanboy · Oct 07, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I'm of the opinion that it is personal preference whether you want to use [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] or [skill]Soldier's fury[/skill]. If you believe wiki, 33% attack speed results in approximately 16% more hits than 25%.

I find that Soldier's Fury (S'sF) works better when you have multiple shouters/chanters, whether other Paragons or Warriors with shouts/chants or you have a number of shouts that are expensive such as "There's Nothing to Fear!" or [skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill]. If you want to use chants, Aggressive Refrain (AR) is much better suited.

Usually when talking about either being utilized, [skill]focused anger[/skill] or [skill]Natural Temper[/skill] should probably be used to fuel your adrenaline based skills such as [skill]"Go For the Eyes!"[/skill], [skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill] or something like Spear of Redemption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Cruel Spear and Defensive Anthem are the first two that come to mind. Party wide 50% block or a skill that causes deep wound are much better than an unreliable 8% faster attack rate that needs to be reapplied.

Okay, I can see how [skill]Cruel Spear[/skill] might be considered better than S'sF if used with AR.

I've never been a fan of [skill]defensive anthem[/skill]. At 15 cost, it's pricey. At 2 sec cast, it's slow. At 25 seconds it's a fairly slow recharge. 9-10 seconds of 50% blocking it sounds good until you read "This Chant ends if that party member hits with an attack skill" disclaimer. So essentially this is an elite chant version of [skill]Aegis[/skill] for the non-attack-skill-using squishies in the party, as the duration will be negligible on any non-blind, non-tank Dervish/Warrior/Assassin/Ranger/Paragon that has an attack skill on their bar. If used with a party of casters or runners (although the cast time is horrid), it could be brilliant, but in the end it is all personal preference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Your friend is an idiot.
It may well be marginally better... But it's kinda... like... an Elite... and stuff.

Just stick with AR.

That made me laugh.

Cheers,
TB

Racthoh · Oct 07, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

By looking at those numbers, it saves me the troubling of doing the math myself to say you're getting 6 extra attacks a minute at the cost of your elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarzanboy

At 15 cost, it's pricey. At 2 sec cast, it's slow. At 25 seconds it's a fairly slow recharge.

-9 or 8 energy depending on leadership.
-Use it as the mob moves into your aggro bubble so by the time it's done being used the melees will be about to attack.

Aegis and DA are about the same; 5 longer recharge on Aegis but has the benefits of a 20% enchanting mod and double cast staff. DA will always be a 2 second cast, and 25 recharge, but with no means of removing it. You could also consider Ward Against Melee; another potential 50% party wide block if you're in the range. There is a reason you'll see all three of these skills in top level GvG play; 50% block for the party is good no matter how you slice it.

Quote:

9-10 seconds of 50% blocking it sounds good until you read "This Chant ends if that party member hits with an attack skill" disclaimer.

The only ones I would worry about are the assassins since they have a low armor level. If your party is dying because your physicals don't have a 50% block rate, I wouldn't be placing the blame on Defensive Anthem's end clause.

Quote:

but in the end it is all personal preference.

Yup, 6 more attacks a minute.

hurric · Oct 10, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I usually used Soldier's Fury along with For Great Justice (20 secs), plus I probably have an additional shout like Stand your ground or They're on fire (with SF eles) for when FGJ is recharging if you don't like to bring/keep up AR between battles.

Warskull · Oct 12, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

There is no situation where Soldier's Fury is going to be better than Aggressive Refrain unless you feel 8% faster attack rate warrants the use of your elite slot. Soldier's Fury works if you're under the effects of a shout or chant, Aggressive Refrain is reapplied everytime one ends. Personally I'd rather use a skill that does more than barely increase my DPS and adrenaline gain.

What he said, if Soldier's Fury is on your bar you aren't using it right.

As for D.Anthem, so it is an elite version of aegis? Aegis happens to be one of the most powerful monk skills in the game. Something that stacks with aegis and cannot be removed is certainly elite worthy. The skill got nerfed to a 2c because it was way too good. 50% block in PvE is freaking fantastic. Sure it ends if you use an attack skill, but the only people using attack skills are hearty enough that they don't care.

Brood_Star · Oct 13, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

so now that agressive refrain is thrown down the drain and keeping mana up with wy/gfte is quite harder...

Soldier's Fury/FGJ/Enduring Harmony?

edit: forgot about warrior stances

Racthoh · Oct 13, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Still aggressive. -20 AL doesn't really do anything when you're not getting attacked anyway.

Brood_Star · Oct 13, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

i always h/h and i have to get rid of condition removal or actually micro my heroes now?

nothx T_T. ANET FIX